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	<title>Comments on: Reason is Coercion</title>
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	<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/</link>
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		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Oh, and thanks for the blogroll!  I&#039;m planning to add a blogroll to this site soon, when I get more free time.  It wasn&#039;t easy with this particular WordPress theme, so I need to switch themes first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and thanks for the blogroll!  I&#8217;m planning to add a blogroll to this site soon, when I get more free time.  It wasn&#8217;t easy with this particular WordPress theme, so I need to switch themes first.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Simon.

You make a very good point, that we must never allow Christianity to be anti-rational.  I&#039;m simply arguing that reason will never work against someone who doesn&#039;t want to be persuaded -- and that our accusations of &quot;Bulverism&quot; and so on are just a mask for our own intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Simon.</p>
<p>You make a very good point, that we must never allow Christianity to be anti-rational.  I&#8217;m simply arguing that reason will never work against someone who doesn&#8217;t want to be persuaded &#8212; and that our accusations of &#8220;Bulverism&#8221; and so on are just a mask for our own intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon R</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-38</guid>
		<description>BTW, I added you to our blogroll on D&amp;L. We will expect 30% of any profits you make in return. Just kidding. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I added you to our blogroll on D&amp;L. We will expect 30% of any profits you make in return. Just kidding. <img src='http://lowerwisdom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Simon R</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Josh, just came over to have a look after your comment on D&amp;L. I agree with the sentiment here - that you can&#039;t reason people into the Kingdom - but I&#039;m not sure if you don&#039;t over-dichotomize the issue. Charles Taylor&#039;s argued that in the West increasingly people&#039;s &#039;default&#039; belief position is atheist / materialist, rather than religious, and this is because they associate atheist beliefs with science / reason and religious belief with faith / irrationality / intellectual immaturity. 

My experience in Britain is that for people to even begin to consider Christ, they first have to understand it is not intellectually naive to believe in God; they need first to be helped to get over these false science : religion, faith : reason dichotomies. Only then will they even consider faith in God as an option, and presumably be open to divine illumination. I just think we need to be careful not to be over-dichotomising faith and reason ourselves, so that we&#039;re not lapsing into a very modern kind of fideism which is anachronistic. Only when we understand faith and reason to be working together, in I suppose a more holistic, pre-modern way, can we allow theology to offer a rational (though not strictly logical) account of Christian faith at a time when it most needed; not rational in terms of justified by science, necessarily (contra McDowell etc.), but rational in terms of its own coherency, set on its own terms (or, I suppose, somewhat &#039;ad hominem&#039;).

Site looks interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, just came over to have a look after your comment on D&amp;L. I agree with the sentiment here &#8211; that you can&#8217;t reason people into the Kingdom &#8211; but I&#8217;m not sure if you don&#8217;t over-dichotomize the issue. Charles Taylor&#8217;s argued that in the West increasingly people&#8217;s &#8216;default&#8217; belief position is atheist / materialist, rather than religious, and this is because they associate atheist beliefs with science / reason and religious belief with faith / irrationality / intellectual immaturity. </p>
<p>My experience in Britain is that for people to even begin to consider Christ, they first have to understand it is not intellectually naive to believe in God; they need first to be helped to get over these false science : religion, faith : reason dichotomies. Only then will they even consider faith in God as an option, and presumably be open to divine illumination. I just think we need to be careful not to be over-dichotomising faith and reason ourselves, so that we&#8217;re not lapsing into a very modern kind of fideism which is anachronistic. Only when we understand faith and reason to be working together, in I suppose a more holistic, pre-modern way, can we allow theology to offer a rational (though not strictly logical) account of Christian faith at a time when it most needed; not rational in terms of justified by science, necessarily (contra McDowell etc.), but rational in terms of its own coherency, set on its own terms (or, I suppose, somewhat &#8216;ad hominem&#8217;).</p>
<p>Site looks interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Chamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>By the way, if you like apologetics you may find this site interesting: http://www.internetcongregation.org

A bit frustrating, but it&#039;s nice to have Christians there too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if you like apologetics you may find this site interesting: <a href="http://www.internetcongregation.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.internetcongregation.org</a></p>
<p>A bit frustrating, but it&#8217;s nice to have Christians there too.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Yeah, there is nothing wrong with using reason to help people understand things.  John Piper, in his book &quot;Don&#039;t Waste Your Life&quot;, opens by using reason (or common sense, in fact), to show that existentialism and deconstructionism are flawed.  It is reasonable to point out that reason has limitations.

IMO, the issue is what are the intentions of the person you&#039;re talking with?  If they do not want to see, no amount of reason will ever make them see.  That&#039;s why Christ said things like &quot;he who has ears, let him hear&quot;, or &quot;cast not your pearls before swine&quot;.  IMO, there is noting wrong with making &quot;ad hominem&quot; judgments about someone, and refraining from further discussion once you have enough evidence to question their willingness to be enlightened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, there is nothing wrong with using reason to help people understand things.  John Piper, in his book &#8220;Don&#8217;t Waste Your Life&#8221;, opens by using reason (or common sense, in fact), to show that existentialism and deconstructionism are flawed.  It is reasonable to point out that reason has limitations.</p>
<p>IMO, the issue is what are the intentions of the person you&#8217;re talking with?  If they do not want to see, no amount of reason will ever make them see.  That&#8217;s why Christ said things like &#8220;he who has ears, let him hear&#8221;, or &#8220;cast not your pearls before swine&#8221;.  IMO, there is noting wrong with making &#8220;ad hominem&#8221; judgments about someone, and refraining from further discussion once you have enough evidence to question their willingness to be enlightened.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Chamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/reason-is-coercion/#comment-18</guid>
		<description>I gave up on trying to reason people into the kingdom.  I realize that I couldn&#039;t do that and be a Calvinist simultaneously.  However, I do try to give them some things to chew on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up on trying to reason people into the kingdom.  I realize that I couldn&#8217;t do that and be a Calvinist simultaneously.  However, I do try to give them some things to chew on.</p>
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