<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: I Love How You Make Me Feel (Calvinists Are Sneaky)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/</link>
	<description>Starting from sea level, gaining a little elevation each day</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:26:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Chalee, thanks very much for the comment.  Now I understand what was meant by the &quot;double jeapordy&quot; comment, and I think I can now see why someone would be motivated to use that explanation.  

In answer to the question about &quot;what was accomplished on the cross?&quot;, it seems that both camps would say &quot;those who believe were saved&quot;.

So it feels as if the debate around limited atonement is primarily about characterizing God&#039;s nature and intentions; emphasizing either mercy or justice.  At least, that&#039;s the best I can ascertain so far.

In any case, I&#039;ve started on Olson&#039;s book, and he is making a strong point that much of what the Calvinists rail against is pelagianism or semi-pelagianism, and not Arminianism.  http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2009/07/book-study-at-sea.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chalee, thanks very much for the comment.  Now I understand what was meant by the &#8220;double jeapordy&#8221; comment, and I think I can now see why someone would be motivated to use that explanation.  </p>
<p>In answer to the question about &#8220;what was accomplished on the cross?&#8221;, it seems that both camps would say &#8220;those who believe were saved&#8221;.</p>
<p>So it feels as if the debate around limited atonement is primarily about characterizing God&#8217;s nature and intentions; emphasizing either mercy or justice.  At least, that&#8217;s the best I can ascertain so far.</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;ve started on Olson&#8217;s book, and he is making a strong point that much of what the Calvinists rail against is pelagianism or semi-pelagianism, and not Arminianism.  <a href="http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2009/07/book-study-at-sea.html" rel="nofollow">http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2009/07/book-study-at-sea.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chalee</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>chalee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-31</guid>
		<description>noncalvinists teach that Christ died for the sins of those who remain unrepentant (i.e. every single person in the world).  perfect atonement and propitiation was made and God&#039;s wrath was placed on Jesus and not on them.

“double jeopardy” is the notion that if Jesus suffered for their sins already, then God would be unjust to judge them and cause them to suffer on the basis of those same sins.

the questions primarily revolve around what was really accomplished at the cross.  Did Jesus save anyone or merely allow for the possibility of salvation?  What does &quot;atonement&quot; mean?

definitely take your time and stick with the bible regardless of what you conclude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>noncalvinists teach that Christ died for the sins of those who remain unrepentant (i.e. every single person in the world).  perfect atonement and propitiation was made and God&#8217;s wrath was placed on Jesus and not on them.</p>
<p>“double jeopardy” is the notion that if Jesus suffered for their sins already, then God would be unjust to judge them and cause them to suffer on the basis of those same sins.</p>
<p>the questions primarily revolve around what was really accomplished at the cross.  Did Jesus save anyone or merely allow for the possibility of salvation?  What does &#8220;atonement&#8221; mean?</p>
<p>definitely take your time and stick with the bible regardless of what you conclude.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Good catch; limited atonement is just one of the 5 points.  I meant to say that I haven&#039;t yet fully understood the positions of the various camps on limited atonement, so I don&#039;t have a well-formed belief.

I strongly believe that:
1) Christ died as propitiation for sin
2) Christ&#039;s sacrifice was great enough to cover ALL sin
3) Not everyone will be saved as a result of Christ&#039;s sacrifice (thus, claim #2 will never be tested, and therefore claims #1 and #3 are sufficient)

As far as I can tell, neither camp would disagree with these beliefs, and the discussion over &quot;limited atonement&quot; is dealing with a completely different issue.  So I am having a really hard time understanding what the point is, or why anyone would take a position on &quot;limited atonment&quot; (other than to assume that scriptures mean what they say)?  MacArthur had some vague argument about &quot;double jeapordy&quot;, but I really don&#039;t see the point (yet; I am trying).  What are the practical implications of one theory versus another?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good catch; limited atonement is just one of the 5 points.  I meant to say that I haven&#8217;t yet fully understood the positions of the various camps on limited atonement, so I don&#8217;t have a well-formed belief.</p>
<p>I strongly believe that:<br />
1) Christ died as propitiation for sin<br />
2) Christ&#8217;s sacrifice was great enough to cover ALL sin<br />
3) Not everyone will be saved as a result of Christ&#8217;s sacrifice (thus, claim #2 will never be tested, and therefore claims #1 and #3 are sufficient)</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, neither camp would disagree with these beliefs, and the discussion over &#8220;limited atonement&#8221; is dealing with a completely different issue.  So I am having a really hard time understanding what the point is, or why anyone would take a position on &#8220;limited atonment&#8221; (other than to assume that scriptures mean what they say)?  MacArthur had some vague argument about &#8220;double jeapordy&#8221;, but I really don&#8217;t see the point (yet; I am trying).  What are the practical implications of one theory versus another?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent Brandenburg</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Brandenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Thanks for you reply, Joshua.  I don&#039;t know that someone who denies limited atonement, as I do, should be labeled an Arminian.  I appreciate your openness to scripture, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for you reply, Joshua.  I don&#8217;t know that someone who denies limited atonement, as I do, should be labeled an Arminian.  I appreciate your openness to scripture, however.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kent,

In this post, I was dealing narrowly with the claim made by Arminians that &quot;Calvinists are sneaky&quot;.  I don&#039;t really feel qualified yet to comment on &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; of the claims made by Arminians (or Calvinists, for that matter).  I will be reading Olson&#039;s &quot;Arminian Theology&quot; over the next two weeks, though, and should be able to post my thoughts about your question at that time.

For what it&#039;s worth, I&#039;m inclined to assume that Paul meant exactly what he said.  I have seen people do gymnastics around verses like this, claiming, for example, that the word &quot;world&quot; in John chapter 3 really is greek secret code for &quot;the elect&quot;.  I am deeply suspicious of such gymnastics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kent,</p>
<p>In this post, I was dealing narrowly with the claim made by Arminians that &#8220;Calvinists are sneaky&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t really feel qualified yet to comment on <i><b>all</b></i> of the claims made by Arminians (or Calvinists, for that matter).  I will be reading Olson&#8217;s &#8220;Arminian Theology&#8221; over the next two weeks, though, and should be able to post my thoughts about your question at that time.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I&#8217;m inclined to assume that Paul meant exactly what he said.  I have seen people do gymnastics around verses like this, claiming, for example, that the word &#8220;world&#8221; in John chapter 3 really is greek secret code for &#8220;the elect&#8221;.  I am deeply suspicious of such gymnastics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent Brandenburg</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Brandenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-26</guid>
		<description>I found your blog through a comment you made on Don Johnson&#039;s blog.   How do you deal with Paul writing that &quot;Christ died for our sins&quot; (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is &quot;the Gospel,&quot; Paul said, &quot;which I preached unto you, which also ye have received&quot; (v. 1). He preached this Gospel, these very words, &quot;Christ died for our sins,&quot; to the Corinthians before they received the words, before he knew if they would believe it, while they were yet sinners belonging to the unbelieving world.  How could Paul preach that Christ died for their sins if, in fact, he did not know that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog through a comment you made on Don Johnson&#8217;s blog.   How do you deal with Paul writing that &#8220;Christ died for our sins&#8221; (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is &#8220;the Gospel,&#8221; Paul said, &#8220;which I preached unto you, which also ye have received&#8221; (v. 1). He preached this Gospel, these very words, &#8220;Christ died for our sins,&#8221; to the Corinthians before they received the words, before he knew if they would believe it, while they were yet sinners belonging to the unbelieving world.  How could Paul preach that Christ died for their sins if, in fact, he did not know that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://lowerwisdom.com/2009/06/i-love-how-you-make-me-feel-calvinists-are-sneaky/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Chamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lowerwisdom.com/?p=51#comment-20</guid>
		<description>I like your treatment of the &quot;L-term&quot; here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your treatment of the &#8220;L-term&#8221; here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
